To kill a pot means to post an overblind that increases the betting limit. A full kill is double the amount of the big blind, and doubles the betting limits. A half kill is one-and-a-half times the big blind, and increases the betting limits by that amount. A kill may be optional in a game, and is often used at lowball when a player wants to be dealt in right away instead of waiting to take the big blind. A kill may be required in a game for any time a specified event takes place. In high-low split games using a required kill, a player who scoops (wins all of) a pot bigger than a set size must kill the next pot. In other games using a required kill, a player who wins two consecutive pots must kill the next pot. In this type of kill game, a marker called a kill button indicates which player has won the pot, and the winner keeps this marker until the next hand is completed. If the player who has the kill button wins a second consecutive pot and it qualifies monetarily, that player must kill the next pot.
Four-bet folding is one of the biggest mistakes a No Limit Hold'em player could ever make. A 4-bet fold is not only illogical, but it is also extremely costly. If you are unfamiliar with the term, a 4-bet fold is when there is a raise (2), re-raise (3), re-re-raise (4), a player shoves and then the other player folds. Standard buyin in limit is 25x the big bet, so $100 in this case. 2-4 will probably be real wild, and swingy, and even more of a drawing game. So id probably fire 2 buyins at them, and call it a day if u lose that, unless the game is that good and u arent tilty after losing 2 buyins. Most 4/8-6/12 O8 players are horrible and chase with non-nut hands. I wouldn't be shocked if a solid player has a $20/hr winrate in these games. If that is more money than you are making at your game AND you can learn enough fast enough to be one of the better players at the table then I'd imagine it would be 'worth it'.
I end up w/ garbage hands and want to dump it before it costs me another bet.
I called a few raises, holding to big connected card or any 2 suited cards- wrong approach ?
I am playing too passive ?
I have been folding both the SB and BB when it is raised to me, which seems to be very often. When nobody raises, I see the flop, then fold when I don't catch anything.
I end up w/ garbage hands and want to dump it before it costs me another bet.
I called a few raises, holding to big connected card or any 2 suited cards- wrong approach ?
I am playing too passive ?
In a word, yes.
The first thing that you have to look at is the position of the Raiser. If the Raiser is in very early position on a ten-seat Table, then chances are he has a powerhouse, so you're probably doing the right thing to fold anything except the Top Ten hands, and then folding unless the Flop brings you a Powerhouse or Nut-Draw. However, when the Raise comes from a player in Middle or Mid-Late position, then it becomes more likely that he has a margina hand and is simply trying to draw some Folds or get a player heads-up.
You're being a little bit too loose, however, calling any two suited cards if the Raise comes from an early position. Again, an early position Raise should lead you to believe that the guy has, if not one of the Top 10 hands, then at a minimum in the Top 10% of possible hands. If you have suited-connectors, then that is a different matter because then you have the opportunity to possibly hit a straight or a flush, but you should throw it away if you don't flop the following: Pair w/ No Overcards, Two Pair, 3oaK, Four to a Flush, Four to a Straight, Four to a Straight-Flush, Flush, Straight, 4oaK, FH...a few of those are very obvious, of course!
If you do end up with a Flush, you also have to be very careful if the early pre-flop Raiser continues to Raise, particularly if the Community ends up being Four-to-a-Flush after the Turn or River. If you remember nothing else during the course of the hand, always remember this, the guy Raised with BIGGER cards than you, he has a BETTER starting hand (in cases of playing Suited-Connectors, NEVER lower than 5-4, or you eliminate Straight possibilities).
If you have something like 9-3, suited, you need to get the Hell rid of it. Even if you are fortunate enough to catch a Flush, there's a pretty good chance that someone is going to have it beat, especially if the Community ends up Four-To-A-Flush. There will probably be an overcard, even if a Nine comes on the Board, so the only real hands worth continuing to even play post-flop are Two Pair, 3oaK, Made Flush, 4oaK, FH. You shouldn't even be in there with that pile of crap, to be honest, because the vast majority of Flops are going to result in something that you should run away from, but maybe you don't, because now you have money in the pot that you want to protect.
The other thing is to play more conservatively when first sitting down and try to spend a half hour or more OBSERVING and only playing the Top 10% (or so) of hands, period. The most useful piece of information is to see a guy showdown a hand such as a FH or 3oaK in which he had an abyssmal starting hand and called pre-flop. Good. He's a pre-flop call station of the mentality, 'The Flop can be anything, and I'd hate to miss a good hand, Hell, anyone can even flop a Four of a Kind!' I like this mentality. Beware of a pre-flop Raise from this guy, but his calls are something that you never have to take seriously pre-flop, disregard his calls, it's dead money 90% of the time!!! If the pre-flop call station is the Raiser, however, you may consider that it is time to GTFO!!!
OK. So you have a Middle-Position Raise followed by two calls. One of the calls is a pre-flop call station, unconcerned. The other call is the Small Blind, okay, that guy is probably just protecting his Blind. Analyze. Watch for stuff like that, he's right next to you, so he's easy to watch. What percentage of Flops does he see out of the SB? Is it around 50% or more? Yes? Okay, he's a Blind protector. Disregard his call.
Why do I say you are passive, then? Simple. If it is worth calling, then it is worth Raising. When you are playing Limit based on Pot Odds, then you want your Pot Odds based on money in the Pot, and if you can get more people out of the Pot, then your Pot-Odds improve. You should only simply call once in a while and only with the most marginal of hands and only when you are calling it dead. The only reason you would even do that is so that your style is not completely obvious, it's a cover play. If you didn't want to Cover, then the mantra, 'If it's worth calling, it's worth Raising,' should always be the case...especially for short sessions.Some may disagree, and I am no professional, but I consider myself a decent player and those are my opinions. A grain of salt, however, would be advisable.
The simplest strategy in the blinds is when there is a raise and you are in a blind to play the same range of hands you would play in early position unless there is multi-way action and you have a hand that plays well multi-way
For live low-limit holdem, this is a great summary on how to blind defend without going into a huge post like mission did. :)
And I disagree on, 'if it's worth calling, it's worth raising.' If someone raises, and there are at least 2 callers, and you have 87-suited for example. 3-betting is suicidal, but folding when getting these odds in the big blind is also bad. When the pot is not multiway, 3 betting or folding instead of calling in the big blind becomes more desirable. But heads up pots is also a sign of a bad 4/8 limit table!
This is similar to SSHE- starting handsGroup 1 Hands (Play in ANY Position)
Pairs 99+
Suited AXs, KTs+, QJs, JTs
Unsuited AQ+
Group 2 Hands (Play in Middle or Late Position)
Pairs Any
Suited AXs, KXs, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+
Unsuited AT+, KJ+, QJ, JT
Group 3 Hands (Late Position Only)
Pairs AnySuited AXs, KXs, QXs, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 53s+, 42s+, 32s
Unsuited AT+, KT+, QT+, JT
Although I do loosen up a bit as my position improves, I am looking for any reason to dump my hand, rather than a reason to play my hand.
Can calling w/ low suited connectors to the showdown, just to advertise( per Helmuths book) help me ?
Possibly from the blinds as I will have a bit of a rebate
Also another bit of advice, stop reading anything by Phil Hellmuth.
This is similar to SSHE- starting hands
Group 1 Hands (Play in ANY Position)
Pairs 99+
Suited AXs, KTs+, QJs, JTs
Unsuited AQ+
Group 2 Hands (Play in Middle or Late Position)
Pairs Any
Suited AXs, KXs, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+
Unsuited AT+, KJ+, QJ, JT
Group 3 Hands (Late Position Only)
Pairs Any
Suited AXs, KXs, QXs, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 64s+, 53s+, 42s+, 32s
Unsuited AT+, KT+, QT+, JT
Although I do loosen up a bit as my position improves, I am looking for any reason to dump my hand, rather than a reason to play my hand.
Can calling w/ low suited connectors to the showdown, just to advertise( per Helmuths book) help me ?
Possibly from the blinds as I will have a bit of a rebate
Where is this from? SSHE is Smal Stakes Hold em i Assume? I am a bit surprised at how lose they are recommending playing in Middle position, even late position some of this range is questionable, at least in my mind. It's going to be really tough to play 86s profitably in Middle Position 1 or K2s.
Also calling just to advertise, again especially at lower limits really has little to no value if that is the only reason for the play.
For live low-limit holdem, this is a great summary on how to blind defend without going into a huge post like mission did. :)
And I disagree on, 'if it's worth calling, it's worth raising.' If someone raises, and there are at least 2 callers, and you have 87-suited for example. 3-betting is suicidal, but folding when getting these odds in the big blind is also bad. When the pot is not multiway, 3 betting or folding instead of calling in the big blind becomes more desirable. But heads up pots is also a sign of a bad 4/8 limit table!
This is a great opportunity for meaningful Debate!
I'm going to explain the statement:
Let's look at this:
We're playing 3-6 Limit, Ten at the Table, Middle-Position raises, two calls, action's on you.
You've got 8-7, suited.
Here's an example, Raiser has KhQh, First to Call Jd-9d, SB Js-8s, BB-you-8c-7c.
If I'm going to go ahead and call this thing:
1.) I'm telling my opponents, 'Hey, my hand isn't all that strong, but it's just good enough that I want to see the Flop for $3.00 more rather than guarantee a loss of $3.00.' If you Raise, you're advertising strength, which is good, if the flop comes Mid-Cards, I want my opponents to think I am just betting high cards, Pair w/ good kicker, or a good Flush Draw. I could already have two pair.
2.) I don't like the probabilities. I'm 19.56% to win the hand (as is) if I call, so that's 19.6% to come out ahead $18, $3.5208 EV on winning $18 v. -$4.824 to lose $6 for an EV of -$1.3032. My EV on folding, however, is a fixed -$3.00, so there's no question that calling is a better decision for this hand.
What if I Re-Raise, though?
I'm bumping this action to $9.00, Kh-Qh is either going to call or Re-Re-Raise. He can do either. If he calls, then I would say that one of the other hands calls and one of them folds. They might both fold because they are scared of the possible cap.
Scenario 1: Call-Fold-Call-Call
We have $33 in the pot now, of which $9 are mine. We'll take out the worst hand which is the SB. I am now 26% to profit $24 and 74% to lose $9 $6.24 -$6.66 = -$0.42, so as you can see, I'm in much better shape than I was before in terms of EV.
Scenario 2: Re-Raise-Fold-Fold-Call
Neither of those guys are calling those hands. I know this guy has the best of me, at this point, so I'm not going to cap. There is going to be $36 in this hand of which $12 is mine. I am 37.19% to profit $24 and 62.16% to lose $12. $8.9256 - 7.4592 = $1.4664 EV
You can see that, even though I am likely to lose the hand, the EV is very much in my favor.
Poker Betting Terms
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The PointPoker Betting Order
I could go through all kinds of scenarios with this one hand, (and I used the cards you gave me and gave my opponents ALL better hands than I have) or I could come up with more examples, but the point is that dead money ALWAYS improves one's EV. I want as much dead money as possible in there, and merely calling does not facilitate dead money.
If it's worth calling, it's worth raising.
What if I Re-Raise, though?
I'm bumping this action to $9.00, Kh-Qh is either going to call or Re-Re-Raise. He can do either. If he calls, then I would say that one of the other hands calls and one of them folds. They might both fold because they are scared of the possible cap.
What casino are you playing at where someone calls a raise but folds to a 3-bet for one more bet when getting 10 to 1 to see the flop minimum?? Sounds like a lovely game. :) Generally if you 3bet and the original raiser does not 4 bet, no one is ever folding and you are just bloating the pot with 87s, which I suggested was 'suicidal' earlier. If for some reason you have an idiot that calls a raise but will fold to your 3-bet, then sure 3-bet away.
What casino are you playing at where someone calls a raise but folds to a 3-bet for one more bet when getting 10 to 1 to see the flop minimum?? Sounds like a lovely game. :) Generally if you 3bet and the original raiser does not 4 bet, no one is ever folding and you are just bloating the pot with 87s, which I suggested was 'suicidal' earlier. If for some reason you have an idiot that calls a raise but will fold to your 3-bet, then sure 3-bet away.
I would not be so quick to assume that never happens. You're approaching the question from a standpoint of a knowledgeable poker player where many at the table are not, all some people think is that there are now two hands a good deal better than his hand and he is encouraged to fold.
In reality, I want the Re-Raise because, yes, that makes the other two more likely to fold.
However, if everyone calls, I'm 19.6% to come out ahead $27 and I am 80.4% to lose $9. $5.292 - $7.236 = -$1.944 so you can see that the difference in EV is worse if everyone calls, but when you look at the difference between that and then the difference between one person folding, if I think we are 50/50 (or better) to get a Fold, then my anticipated EV improves with the Raise.
Furthermore, if the Middle Position guy tends to try to steal Blinds and has garbage, then he may fold.
Again, what I really want is the Re-Raise. I want people out of the hand. I want dead money in the pot. That's what I am trying to do, create dead money. The times that I get dead money will make up for the times that I don't, unless it's just a really loose Table.
Things can change based on the betting habits of the people you are playing with, which is why a working knowledge of that is just as important as probability charts. That's also why I suggested learning those things simultaneously. We're just speaking in generalities right now, though.
JFTR, I've sat next to quite a few small blinds who will call a single Raise to, 'Defend the Blind,' and they are loose in that sense, but they almost always cave to a Re-Raise because they are otherwise tight. Tendencies is the name of the game.